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The Harbor - Truth in Chaos's avatar

The word choice is as dense as it is precise in the best way. I have only read a little under half of it so far but the clarity with which you are communicating these ideas is exceptional. My perspective is aligned so precisely with your own it feels as though I'm reading a better written explanation of my own internal sense of things.

I will complete the rest when I have more time, but thank you for sharing this with me and for writing it in the first place. I do disagree with the conclusion you seem to be arriving at. I believe you are indicating that we are in a state of collapse- currently. As in within the next century things will be worse (?) than they are now.

I agree completely that all systems we can identify tend towards an eventual perspectival disordering (entropic collapse). But the scale and speed of the entropic effects feels very immediate in the language you use up to at least before 'What has happened here?'. In my view this collapse of our global and state institutions is inevitable- but not immediately in front of us or at the scale you appear to be positing.

In line with that disagreement, there is a narrative you are creating that seems focused primarily on the negative feelings we get when we think about our inevitable dissipation. Yet throughout the section I read there are many statements about the eventual vanishing of all narratives, framings, and tools. So then if we both accept that our framing and narrative is going to vanish and is not objective- is it not then our choice as to whether we frame it with anguish or delight or not much at all?

There is also a framing throughout that it is 'bad' that systems will eventually reach a peak in whatever intended objective we can describe them as having and after that peak will begin to deteriorate until they vanish. But in my view this is 'bad' only because one has decided to value an uninterrupted experience as the thing they will feel good about if they obtain or bad about if they do not. No matter what, anyone with that value is going to feel bad for as long as they know the temporary reality of their entropic substrate.

Then why not value that which will not make you feel bad? There is no reason for acting towards one value or the other- not one we can say with certainty at least I am sure you agree. So then we need no reason to look in any particular direction.

So my question is: why do you look with such anguish at the vanishing of any system- or your own?

Also at the end of the day one's determination of whether society and global human interaction is going to progress or deteriorate is an incredibly complex question that probably requires several lifetimes of data collection and analysis to predict with any reasonable amount of certainty- no?

If I misunderstood or misrepresented any of your points please correct me! Some of the ideas you talked about have been treaded many times in my own head so it might be difficult for me to immediately pick up the places you illuminated but I haven't yet been.

I look forward to reading the rest of this tomorrow or this weekend!

PS:

"Thus, even flexible epistemology is just an attempt to optimise compression relative to available computational resources."

Here is my current optimization strategy for compression, would love for you to tear it apart!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wge23KnnFfpZ8FWOqa2fvNNkXBIEwGHbr4eM288ZETE/edit?usp=sharing

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Simon Pearce's avatar

Jake. Your next 50 essays (at least) could be sub-sections or deep dives of your magnum opus here. I’m not sure I’ve seen anybody cover so much ground in a single essay. I personally would love to see a deep dive on your thoughts about the relationship between Epistemology and Teleology with a narrower focus. You see meta-patterns with exceptional clarity; many readers may struggle to keep up with you at this pace. A series, or even a series of series, might be clarifying for both you and your readers. I for one would read this with great interest.

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